"When a man who accepts the Christian doctrine lives unworthily of it, it is much clearer to say he is a bad Christian than to say he is not a Christian."
- C.S. Lewis, Mere Christianity
There is a line of thinking, particularly prominent in the American Protestant tradition, that says of the apostate or nominal Chrisitan, "Oh, he was never really saved/born again/regenerate to begin with." Quite simply, he is not a Christian. I have heard similar things said of Christians from other denominations, such as Roman Catholics and even Protestants of other creeds. This assumption (what I believe to be a mistaken one) stems from two different theological principles.
1. The theology of Eternal Security, which looks different depending on which branch of Protestantism you hail from.
- Within the Fundamentalist Evangelical denominations it is sometimes refered to as the Free Grace doctrine or "Once Saved, Always Saved." The idea is that, once you undergo a conversion experience, you cannot be unconverted. Some key verses are 1 John 2:19, John 10:28, 1 Corinthians 8-9, and 1 Corinthians 3:15.
- Within those denominations that descend from the Calvinist tradition, the key theology is the Perseverence of the Saints, in laymen's terms, that God will see to it that those He has brought to salvation will persevere in the faith until the end. Inextricably linked to this doctrine are the concepts of Predestination (God preordains some souls to become regenerate and others not to) and Total Depravity (only God can produce good works in us; we are incapable of doing so on our own).
Catholics and other Orthodox Christians believe that the Sacraments instituted by Christ are "outward signs of inward grace," meaning that they really and truly do convey God's grace to the person receiving them. In other words, when administered correctly, they actually "do something."
The Westerminster Shorter Catechism views states things a bit differently, defining a sacrament as "sensible signs" by which "Christ and the benefits of the new covenant are represented, sealed, and applied to believers." In other words, they don't "do" anything in and of themselves; they are signs of things that are being done through the faith of the believer. But, the Reformed Churches who adhere to this Catechism do at least believe that the sacraments are beneficial on the believer's road to salvation.
Such is not the case with many Fundamental Evangelical churches. For example, the Southern Baptist Convention does not even use the word "sacraments" when referring to Baptism and Holy Communion, prefering the term "ordinances," specifically because they believe that these "ordinances" are in no way related to a person's salvation.
Evangelical Churches (and some Reformed and mainline Protestant sects) also adhere to something called credo-baptism, meaning that only those who have already professed belief in Jesus Christ may be Baptized. If a person was baptized as an infant but comes to faith later, they must be re-baptized in these churches. This is very telling. So important is this credo, this profession of faith, to the identity of "Christian" that a Baptized person who has not professed faith is considered not Christian.
The reason for this prerequisite of professed belief for Baptism is incredibly important for this discussion, because it equates the identity of "Christian" with the reality of salvation. This idea of salvation being inextricably linked to religious identity is astonishingly unique to Protestant Christianity, specifically Fundamental Evangelical Protestant Christianity. Allow me to illustrate by taking a cursory look at the other "religions of the Book," Judaism, Islam, and the Orthodox Christian faith.
A Jew is not a Jew because he is saved. He is a Jew because he is Jewish, because he was either born into Judaism or chose to convert to the faith of Israel. He is a Jew whether or not he keeps kosher, whether he goes to temple, or whether he even believes in God.
In Islam, a Muslim is considered a Muslim (either by birth or conversion) regardless of his present confession to the creed of the Islamic faith. This is why it is considered a crime in many Islamic countries to convert a Muslim citizen--whether or not he ever believed in Islam, he is considered a Muslim, and to draw him away from his faith even if he never professed that faith himself is a serious crime.
In Orthodox Christianity, a Baptized person is a Christian regardless of creed or lifestyle. Even nominal Christians or so-called "Christmas Catholics" are Christians. They may be apostate; they may be fallen away; they may be, as C.S. Lewis says "bad Christians," but they are nonetheless Christians.
Now, I have no desire to wrestle with sacramental or salvation theology today. That is a much larger topic than I could possibly cover in a single post, and in any case, far finer minds than mine have already done. (You might like to read some of the works cited in this article if you'd like to explore some of their arguments.) No, instead, I would like to pose a question: What do we do with the nominal Christian?
What happens when someone who was clearly a Christ follower falls away from the faith, whether through complacency or apostasy? I'm not talking about a new believer who's worn off their Jesus high but rather someone who has shown evidence of the Holy Spirit working in their lives for years, perhaps even decades. We all know them, these men and women who mentored us, inspired us, discipled us, taught us, maybe even were instrumental in bringing us into relationship with Christ--who have abandoned their faith for an unbiblical lifestyle or who have simply become lukewarm, like the Church at Laodicea. They may still even talk the talk, but they aren't walking the walk.
Disillusionment follows, and we ask: Are they still our brothers? Were they ever our brothers? Are they fallen-away sisters, or no sisters at all?
Now, obviously, I am a Catholic and so I hold with the profession of the Church that a Christian is a Christian is a Christian from Baptism through eternity, whether or not they are ever "baptized with the Spirit and fire," whether or not they ever find a personal relationship with Christ, whether or not they ever undergo a conversion experience, whether or not they are saved. I believe this, and I also believe there is profound value in this and that something incredibly important is lost when we do not acknowledge the membership of all Baptized persons in the universal Church of Christ.
This begs two questions: (1) What is the value of maintaining that even nominal and apostate Christians are still members of the Church? and (2) What is lost when we do not acknowledge this membership?
The value is found, first of all, in truth and second, in charity. The truth is that a Baptized person is a Christian by virtue of their Baptism because a Christian is any person who has been identified with the Church of Jesus Christ. This is how the term was originally used to describe the follwers of Christ at Antioch around the year 40 A.D. Now this identification could come from being born into a family of Christians and Baptized by them in infancy, or it could come from a conversion experience later in life. Ideally, it stems from both, though for salvation only the latter (accompanied by Baptism) is necessary.
Some people would disagree with me, insisting that salvation is necessary for one to identify oneself as Christian. In response, I would ask them to open their eyes. There are millions of people all over this planet who call themselves Christian (or who are called Christian by people of other faiths) who are not regenerate, who perhaps do not even profess a belief in God, let alone in the redemptive power of His Son, Jesus Christ. To insist that these people are not Christian is like saying that an American who is unpatriotic is not an American. That maybe how we feel--it may even be how the unpatriotic American feels--but it is not true. And, it is not helpful. Moreover, it is uncharitable. It strikes at the heart of someone's personal identity and says, "I know you better than you do." How presumptuous and arrogant. How very unkind.
Finally, let us examine one final question: What is lost when we deny the Christian identity of an apostate or nominal Christian? Well, potentially, his soul.
That is a very weighted assertion, so let me explain. I am not saying that any man or woman has the power to withhold or avert another person's salvation. However, I do believe that we human beings often have a major role to play in evangelization; there's a reason it's called the "Great Commission," and there's a reason Jesus left the task to us mere mortals. It is my belief that we are called to evangelize even within the Church, for as I said before, not all the Baptized are saved.
When we deny the fact that a Baptized person is a Christian, we are (perhaps inadvertently) pushing them away from the Church. We are representing ourselves (and thereby the Church) as arrogant and uncharitible in our presumptions. In addition, we are letting the apostate Christian off the hook. This is, in my opinion, the greatest loss and the one most closely connected to the issue of salvation.
When we deny that a Baptized person is a Christian, we are quite literally setting them outside of the Church. We are negating any past encounter they have had with the Living God, whether through the Sacraments, the Liturgy, the Word, sacred music, or fellowship with believers. We are denying their obligation to fulfill their Baptismal vows, whether they spoke these vows themselves or whether they were made on their behalf by parents and/or godparents.
Some people may say that those who did not profess their own faith have no obligation to fulfill vows made in hope on their behalf, but I would argue that this is simply not so. In times of war, the birth citizens of a country are obligated to defend their nation by virtue of their birth just as much as those citizens who immigrated to that country by choice. In a similar way, the Church is comprised not of citizens but members, and those members are all the Baptized.
Even if you disagree with this and maintain that only those who were Baptized through credo-Baptism have any place in the Church, then you still have to grapple with the reality of the apostate believer. When someone was once a faithful Christian and has walked away, there are only two things you can say of him. You can say either that he has fallen away temporarily and will return to the faith (only time will tell if this is a truthful assumption), or you can say with C.S. Lewis that he is a "bad Christian." What you cannot do is say that he is not--or never was--a Christian. Your own experience will tell you that he is and was what he always was, just as an unobservant Jew is still a Jew and an unbelieving Muslim is still a Muslim.
Perhaps it is because we are American and we Americans are so obsessed with self-made identities that this phenomenon seems so particularly prevalent here. We increasingly fight for the right to define ourselves on our own terms. In a world of sometimes disturbing technological advances, our society now maintains that we can even define our own gender identities, regardless of how we were born, raised, and how we have lived in a gendered reality our whole lives. Many conservative Christians are eager to point out that God made us all a certain way and that to deny or alter this is to defy God's Will. Yet, many of these same people are equally eager to deny Christian identity to many of their fallen away brethren.
Why? Are we afraid to be identified with them? The world already identifies us with them. And, what's more, there is no "us" and "them." Jesus told us that a "household divided against itself will not stand" (Matthew 12:25). What can we reasonably expect to happen to a Church divided against its own members? Proverbs 11:29 warns that he who brings trouble on his family will "inherit the wind." What can we expect to inherit if deny our own brothers and sisters?
In the broader scheme of things, what right do we have to even define who is Christian and who is not? Who is saved and who is not? Time will reveal all truths, and only God knows what is in each of our souls. If someone says she is a Christian, even if she doesn't live like it, why tell her she is wrong? Why not welcome her as a sister and help her to walk aright in the light of the Christ whose name she embraces as a part of her own identity?
As always, I am not a theologian or a Bible scholar. These are merely the musings (albeit the researched and thoughtful musings) of a homemaker, wife, mother, writer, artist. Dialogue is welcomed and encouraged! Surely such dialogue is the very heart of ecumenism, understanding, and charity, which are of worth to all people, Christian or not.

Wow,you have opened my eyes. But is also true that many who are baptized and are Catholic do not like to be called Christians. I am Catholic and I call myself a Christian too. Because I feel that everyone who believes in Jesus Christ should be called a Christian.
ReplyDeleteRosario - Ironically, the Catholic Church calls them Christians! I think that, since the Reformation, Catholics like to identify themselves specifically as Catholic, while Protestants like to be called Christian. Personally, I often call myself a "Catholic Christian."
ReplyDeleteThis is such an excellent post. But I don't really get this whole saving thing (I feel hopelessly ignorant here). Does salvation = going to Heaven, or...? How does someone even know if they've been saved - let alone someone else? Isn't salvation a cumulative process? I would never take for granted that I am going to Heaven no matter what. That seems like an enormous rationalization. (ie, I'm saved, so let's get this party started, because I'm going to Heaven no matter what!)
ReplyDeleteRebekkah - Salvation means that your soul has "been saved" and that you will go to Heaven, not to Hell.
ReplyDeleteYou speak about salvation as being a road or a process--this is a very Orthodox view of things. We speak of "hoping in" or "working toward" our salvation, rather than "knowing" that we are saved. We should neither worry about our salvation nor should we claim absolute knowledge of it; rather we should love and live for Christ and trust Him to bring us home to Himself.
Part of this is precisely because we believe that not all Christians are saved and that a Christian can, of his or her own free will, reject their own salvation and turn away from God--just as an unbeliever can, at any point turn TO God and embrace His Salvation.
Salvation theology can get very, very confusing as you delve into different denominations. For example, the principle of Predestination (in Calvinism) has been giving people headaches for centuries!
I hope that was helpful rather than merely confusing! In any case, as you said, we can never know we (or anyone else) is saved (or unsaved) until we're dead. So, I figure we might as well pray for everyone (ourselves included), love Jesus, and welcome anyone who claims to be a brother or sister with open arms in the Name of Christ.
Interesting.
ReplyDeleteHow about someone who is baptised as a baby by their parents but becomes a militant atheist as an adult (like some of my friends). Would you say they were poor Christians?
Hi, Beth-
ReplyDeleteThis was a very interesting and informative post, with really excellent points made, as per usual. I do have one question, though-what do you mean by gender identities? Just curious as to whether you're referring to gender re-assignment (which is kind of an inaccurate term to begin with, as it's a sexual reassignment) or just people who choose to live their lives outside the cultural norms for their gender? I'm assuming based on the mention of technology that you're referring to sexual re-assignment, but correct me if I'm wrong.
In the case of sexual re-assignment, if a person feels with all their heart and soul that they don't identify with the sex they were born with, who is to say that the whole process of identifying one's truest self is contrary to what God had in mind for him or her? Who is to say that just because it does not fit within the usual confines of life experience (or certainly anything dealt with explicitly in Biblical text), that they were not made exactly as God intended, and that the whole process of sexual-reassignment is a part of this person's journey towards living their best, most honest life--a life which they feel comfortable in and probably most able to live a Christ-centered life? People who engage in sexual reassignment don't do so on a whim. The technology is there but it's difficult and costly. The stigma that goes along with such a process, it can be argued, is even more so. God is simply too mysterious, His ways too nuanced for us to make any grand judgments on His individual process or plan for anyone-anyone at all.
In the grand scheme of things does it really matter if a Christian follows gender norms so long as they live a life centered in the faith? I'm not sure. As we can't ask God and expect to get a definitive answer for all the world to adhere to and believe in (as you've so clearly shown, we can't even agree within the greater Christian faith on even basic tenets!), I think you're spot on in that we should be kind, humble and generous in our views. If someone has fallen away for whatever reason, or we perceive them to have lost the faith by virtue of certain lifestyle choices contrary to what we perceive as appropriate, we should endeavor to be as kind and supportive of them as we can-especially when struggling with issues of faith, keeping in mind that only God knows their way, and it is not necessarily our place (or helpful) to judge.
Perhaps the greatest test of faith, then is internal-coming across Christians who live or believe in things differently than ourselves, and resolving our hearts and minds to the idea that God is still at work within them, though we may not understand His process and question what we see. The test, then, is relying on God's judgment as being right and sound, however mysterious it might seem to you or me.
This, of course, is just a thought or two floating around in my head. I'd love to hear more about what you think of this sometime. Keep up the great work, Beth-this blog is wonderful, and we are truly blessed with your insight-and your ability to so eloquently share it with us. :)
With love from your Chica in the UK,
Steph
Allahu Akbar. God is Great.
Buffy - Yes, I would say those those people are fallen away Christians by right of their Baptism, just as I would say that Karl Marx was still a Jew.
ReplyDeleteSteph - I was referring to both sexual reassignment and sexual identity crises, not simply living outside the "gender norm," which admittedly looks different across cultures. To give examples, I am referring to someone like Tina Brandon (of Boys Don't Cry immortalization), NOT, say, my extremely masculine lesbian theatre professor who always wore men's jeans and workboots. One (the latter) is a woman who embraces masculinity over femininity, the other (Brandon) is someone who is a woman who presents herself as a man and lives as a man.
I'm not really sure this is the proper venue for having a discussion on sexual ethics or gender studies; comment boxes only give you so much space, and it's a very weighty issue. That said, I will make a brief statement that while I feel deep compassion for those who feel they were born the "wrong" gender and while I acknowledge the very unique sitatuion of homaphrodites who have been born with aspects of BOTH genders, I do believe that to deny, alter, or misuse any part of our sexuality is a sin and--perhaps more pertinent for our post-modern age--something that is not beneficial to the whole person. When we deny who we are, we harm ourselves.
Now, I know a young man who feels that, inside, he is female. He has always been this way, from birth. It was not something his parents encouraged by any means. It is simply who he is. Yet, I think that the greatest harm he could do to himself with regard to this is to DENY his maleness. I think that my lesbian professor had a psychologically healthy view of herself (regardless of the ethics of homosexuality, which I will not get into because the topic here is sexual identity, NOT sexual orientation; different things) in that she acknowledged herself as WOMAN despite the fact that she acted "masculine" in many ways.
To deny one's own gender is to deny a core of one's self. I believe that, in order to truly accept oneself, we must embrace ALL of who we are, as we were created to be. If I am born a woman, I am a woman, regardless of how I live or how I "feel." To deny this is to deny myself. The question I must ask myself is why what I am feeling does not seem to fit with who I AM. I must learn to reconcile these two halves of myself--for both are true. It is not one or the other. I am a whole person--body as well as mind as well as soul. One aspect of my self cannot take precedence over the others.
I hope that makes sense. Again, this is not a comprehensive response. I have tried to do my best within the space allowed.
Steph (and anyone else) - I also forgot to recommend Lillian Calles Barger's "Eve's Revenge". Barger is a Christian feminist and deeply respected in both theolgical and sociological circles. This book (while specifically relating to women) is all about how our dualistic culture has been harmful both to the Christian world and the feminist cause. She addresses the importance of casting off Greco-Roman dualist thought and embracing ourselves as WHOLE human beings--body, mind, and soul. It is quite readable, and I think you'd find it very compelling.
ReplyDeleteGreat post, I will have to read it over a few more times. It wasn't until I spent time around Evangelical Protestants that I realized there were Christians who felt comfortable defining other, practicing Christians as non-Christians.
ReplyDeleteI'm not even talking about the whole Mormonism, Jehovah's Witness area, nor do I know much about that. I am talking about Evangelical Protestants calling most Catholics and some Lutherans "not Christian."
For example, "He goes to church and calls himself Christian, but he's not a (knowing sideways look) real Christian." Usually these comments were made towards anyone who was Catholic, though sometimes towards individuals from mainline Protestant churches and towards fallen-away Born Again Christians. Some people had such stunning confidence in their ability to separate the wheat from the chaff in convenient little piles.
I completely agree that we shouldn't go around saying other Christians aren't Christian. How can a Protestant say a Catholic, or a Protestant in a legitimate denomination that believes in the trinity, is not a real Christian. (Catholics shouldn't say this either, although that hasn't happened in my limited experience. Doesn't mean it doesn't happen the other way around, which is just as wrong.)
I would never want Jesus to look at me and say, "How could you say my child, whom I loved, did not belong to me?" I'll let Jesus decide that.
Sorry for the long comment, but this has always rankled me so I'm so glad you wrote this.
Thanks for the book suggestion, it sounds great--and thanks for your response-I'm not sure my transgender friends would agree with it but I like how holistic it is-and absolutely, we should try and be true to our whole selves. It becomes difficult when so many people (perhaps myself up until I read your response) tend to think only in dualist terms whether out of habit or belief, and one feels compelled to fit within that framework. Would that everyone was as holistic in mindset as you, and thoughtful enough to put it into words.
ReplyDeleteBethany, To be a Christian one must be a follower of Christ that has accepted God's perfect plan of redemption through Jesus Christ as Savior...people must be born of his spirit and not by a humanly birth alone. Jesus is the redeemer...Jesus, the Lamb of God.
ReplyDeleteA water baptism alone without Christ being one's personal Savior doesn't redeem you and it doesn't make you a christian. This baptism doesn't make you a christian no matter what. You'd best be concerned for those that have never been born again. Bethany, the baptism one must have to be a Christian is the one that takes place when Jesus becomes your savior and then a spiritual baptism takes place. This spiritual baptism is what one needs.
As for Muslems, their God is not Almighty God. They believe that their god is not knowable. They deny Jesus's deity. Through Jesus...fully God/fully human we can know God. We also can have our assurrance of our salvation and be heaven bound through Christ Jesus being our personal saviour. While on this side of heaven with Jesus as our personal saviour we can be filled with the Holy Spirit...be adopted into the family of God. Inherit the mind of Christ. You can have assurrance of your salvation through him.
Muslems cannot be filled with God's Holy Spirit when they haven't been saved and yes...being saved and salvation is in the Bible. Keep reading.
Deanna - You do not seem to have understand at all what I have written. In fact, you are making the exact presumption I speak of here, which is that you are equating salvation through Christ with Christian identity. This may be what you have been taught or what you infer from Scripture, but please know that this way of thinking simply DID NOT EXIST in the Church until quite recently. In many branches of Christianity, such thinking still does not exist. It is not a part of apostolic teaching.
ReplyDeleteI also do not understand at all how you made the leaps in logic you did regarding Muslims. I was writing only about religious identity, using Islam and Judaism as examples. I said nothing about Islamic beliefs regarding Jesus; it would be completely beside the point.
In addition, though I do not claim to be an expert, I do know quite a bit about salvation theology (though that was not the point of this post). I have written on the subject of soteriology repeatedly, and I find what you have written about my needing to "keep reading" the Bible both offensive and ignorant. I have read the Bible cover to cover on more than one occassion; I study the Bible daily. I hear it read at daily Mass as well as on Sundays, and I study it with my priest and with fellow Christians.
Finally, I would like to state that I have confidence and hope in my salvation through Christ, but I will never speak about it in the terms that you use. Despite the fact that some of your comments have caused me offense, I am glad that you wrote; your perspective is shared by many Evangelical Christians, and it is precisely why I wrote this post. I hope that continued dialogue will enable the rifts in the Body of Christ to heal with time and prayer and grace.
Bethany, because I wrote keep reading, you are offended and mention my ignorance. It was intended as a cheering on...keep reading!
ReplyDeleteMore than likely each time we spend time reading the Bible we gather more insight...so...keep reading.
Deanna - I am glad to know that that particular instance was a miscommunication. The reason I inferred what I did was because you seemed to imply that I did not know that salvation was even in the Bible. I'm sure you can understand where the confusion came from.
ReplyDeleteMaryann:
ReplyDeleteI can speak as a Protestant convert to Catholicism that many Protestants don't believe Catholics are Christians simply because they don't know what Catholics really believe. It is too bad that many of them don't take the time to find out the teachings of the Catholic Church before judging and discounting those beliefs and the people who believe them.
Kristin
Bethany, Many times I share the gospel with others that already know the gospel...it isn't that I don't always think they have never heard the news...it is because I deeply enjoy talking about the salvation message even when it's not the main subject matter in a post.
ReplyDeleteMy husband is my best friend and for years...I mean years...we have talked about the gospel. Just as Paul mentions in the Bible that he knew a man that shared the same news for many many years, I'm quilty of mentioning the salvation message.
Perhaps someone will read a comment and it will be their first time to hear or read the gospel. There are many that don't leave of comment that just so happen upon a post and the comments left.
I have a multitude of Catholic friends and family members that are devout Catholics. I have read about a variety of religions including the teachings of the Catholic Church and her early history.
I confess I don't read every post that are in everyone's blog. I confess that I am not up on every thing you believe.
I'm a Christian, a Protestant in a manner of speaking (though not a Calvinist). I definitely believe that Catholics are (or can be, for who can say what goes on in the heart) Christians.
ReplyDeleteThis post seems to turn on what the definition of "Christian" is. What definition of "Christian" are you setting forth here - a baptized person, a person who has professed faith in Christ at one point or another, a person born to Christian parents, a person who has had a relationship with God in his/her heart, those who self-identify as Christians, or something else?
Could you please articulate a short, concise definition of who you think should be called a Christian?
For me, a Christian is a person who is a *follower* of Jesus Christ. A person walking in the opposite direction from the way Christ would have them go, then, would not seem to be a follower, or a Christian, any more.
Then again, if you look at it like a prodigal son type of thing, even when a son leaves his father, he still carries his father's name with him. In the same way, if we leave the Father, do we still carry His name (i.e., are we still part of the Christian family)?
These are interesting questions, and maybe there aren't satisfactory answers, but just having the discussion is a good starting place.
Elle Bee -
ReplyDeleteI once shared your definition of a Christian being a "Christ follower" (someone who is actively pursuing and following Christ to the best of their ability)--but I ran into issues with this.
1) I know people who are not following Christ who call themselves Christian. How do we account for their own understanding of their identity?
2) Different denominations have different criteria for what "following Jesus" looks like. So, who decides who's really "following"?
3) What do we do with the apostates? I love what you said regarding the prodigal son--if apostasy can negate our Christian identity, then how can we understand this parable?
My own instinct, then, is to define Christian identity through Baptism, either Baptism by water, Baptism by intention (someone who wishes to be baptized in the near future and is working toward that end), or Baptism by blood (martyrdom in defense of the Faith).
This is the traditional definition for Baptism; throughout Church history, this is who Christians have come to be identified. I think it is the simplest and most authentic way of defining who is or is not a Christian.
I have a relative who was born again many years ago. Before, and after this conversion he has been in jail, stolen from relatives and conned strangers. I do not know what is in his heart, but based on his actions I think he has reasons to be concerned for his salvation. This personal experience has made me very wary of the idea of going into a baptismal font and coming out saved, no matter what else you do in life. I am well aware that we are saved by Jesus' atoning sacrifice and God's grace alone, but I also belive that we are to work out our salvation with fear and trembling. I thought we were to "go and sin no more" not "be saved and keep on sinning."
ReplyDeleteI think the benefit of having a christian "identity," if you will, is that fallen-away Christians can still be encouraged and brought back to their faith. If we say, "I guess he was not really saved, was never really a Christian, etc," then we find ourselves likely to write them off and perhaps they really will be lost. The other scenario is that practicing Christians continue to call back their fallen-away brethren.